Comments on: #2 – SS Wilmer Flores

By: Silver Surfer

Silver Surfer — Wed, 19 Aug 2009 23:37:04 +0000

I’ve watched Flores play several times this season for the Sand Gnats. It’s obvious to me the guy is special, even though his stats this season don’t give a clear indication of his true talent and big potential He is young, tall, lanky and posseses amazing instincts and displays great fundamentals, especially for a kid that who just turned 18 earlier this month.

By: NateW

NateW — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 19:16:39 +0000

hmm… this doesn’t answer my question at all…. but thanks for the reply I guess.

By: Big Asian Mets Fan

Big Asian Mets Fan — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 16:27:04 +0000

I love this kid!! He has the potential!!
Some say he might be next.. Miguel Cabrera!?!!?
I don’t know about that, but he might hit a lot of home run

By: Smokey

Smokey — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:44:27 +0000

There is literally nothing else substantiating the national publications’ rankings of Tim Beckham and Casey Kelly than trade value. They both crapped out exceptionally hard, and Kelly now has to switch positions. Would you rank Beckham as the 15th-best prospect in America when he started in a lower League than Wilmer Flores and put up like a .550 OPS? Wilmer is younger and has produced at a higher level. Other than the fact that Tim Beckham was drafted first overall and the Rays would never trade him for Flores, there’s nothing substantiating him being 15th and Flores being like 50th on every national list out there. By all rights, Flores should be ranked ahead of him, considering he has had actual success at playing baseball professionally, but what do I know?

If Toby’s ranking isn’t based on trade value, what is it based on? Potential? Potential’s nice, but it doesn’t mean anything. Would you have killed me for ranking Ty Wigginton over Paul Wilson? For ranking Mike Jacobs over a freshly-drafted Lastings Milledge?

By: Gina

Gina — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:38:21 +0000

Also why would you pencil in ? Other than being old what has he shown that makes you think he’s ready? Teams just don’t pencil in awful players because they’re old, or at least not teams that are trying to win.

By: Gina

Gina — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:34:42 +0000

If you think Toby ranked on trade value do you think all prospect lists are based on trade value? Cause I can’t think of any prospect list from any source I’ve seen, for the mets, that looks much different from Toby’s. Most of the guys you listed are fringe prospects/major leaguers. Usually prospects are ranked by a combination of upside/talent and how close they are to the major leagues. I don’t see how being older makes a bunch of guys who will likely be career AAAA’s/fringe players better prospects.

By: troubleman

troubleman — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 14:05:34 +0000

Kinda agree with Smokey…. Basically Flores could legitimately be a junior in high school…
Is there a high school junior out there that would rank as the 2nd best prospect in any org.?

also agree on Holt a little…. He may have the highest ceiling of any pitcher in the org. but only if he develops his secondary pitches… He’s probably had more heliem then any player selected last year. Prior to that basically no one had heard of him. Not a lot of history to go on with him except one great year. He pulled that year off with primarily one pitch which he wont be able to do this year. He could easily be a top 3 prospect but imo he hasnt proved it yet.

By: beltran and the mets

beltran and the mets — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 02:15:16 +0000

Yeah. Um. Reading over everthing thats been written I have no idea why you are talking about trade value as a measure for these prospects. It seems that you totally misunderstood “Displaced Mets Fans” point – and his one reference to a GM – and ran with it. From what I understood he intimated that you would not be a good GM because you would value MLB readiness over skill set, hence the Guerra comment. And I totally disgree with your assessment that Toby’s ranking is based on trade value. Not at all.

By: Smokey

Smokey — Fri, 20 Feb 2009 00:17:56 +0000

Thanks for jumping down my throat. I’m not saying I would be prepared to ship any of them off. I’m not in the business of including guys below A+ in trades unless it nets, say, Johan Santana or Mike Piazza. There is no prospect valuable enough to hold back in a trade for one of the game’s premier players in his prime.

I would keep Flores and Holt by all means, but to get insanely excited over them is IMO ridiculous. Just let them develop. They could be great; they could be garbage.

As for my top five that would include neither of those guys:

1. Fernando Martinez – as he has done well at AA and I’ve seen him play several times, one of which was in person, and I have faith in his skills.
2. Bobby Parnell – because I think he has a great shot at being a bottom-rotation starter with a mean streak, like Jake Westbrook except with the ability to stay healthy. He has a plus two-seam fastball and an underrated slider. Shoot me.
3. Jon Niese – not necessarily because I like him, but because he made the Majors at 21 already and can still make enough adjustments to be– like I mentioned in my comment about him– another Jamie Moyer type as he gets older. His floor is a really good LOOGY a la Pedro Feliciano in his day.
4. Dillon Gee – because he’s found success at literally every single level thus far, and he’s simply further along than Flores and Holt. He could legitimately make his debut in September. His control numbers are unreal.
5. Eddie Kunz – plus-plus sinker means he still has a great shot at being a closer-caliber player. It’s almost certain at this point he becomes a permanent contributor in the Mets bullpen by September.

For the record, Coronado would be 6 (I consider him heavily underrated) and Holt 7, then Antonini 8 and Flores 9.

THIS IS NOT A MEASURE OF TRADE VALUE. IT IS A MEASURE OF GUYS’ ABILITY TO CONTRIBUTE TO THE MAJOR LEAGUE TEAM, OBVIOUSLY SOONER THAN LATER. That is the way I prefer to rank prospects. For me, a farm system is not about developing trade chips. It’s about cranking out young depth that can carry a team through the rigors of a 162-game season and eventually the starters that will serve as your franchise cornerstones. The homegrown players breed the most excitement and loyalty from the fan base, and they come the cheapest both during their initial contracts and when they re-sign at a hometown discount.

Toby has clearly ranked on trade value. That’s fine. I don’t put any stock in low-level prospects as they are almost always throw-ins to deals and really portend nothing as far as MLB contributions. There’s a long line of heavily hyped players who have turned into basically nothing. I prefer getting back the closer players to sure things. BY THAT LOGIC, I CONSIDER FLORES AND HOLT UNTOUCHABLE– NOT DUE TO PURE SKILL, BUT BECAUSE THE VALUE THEY BRING BACK WOULD NOT JUSTIFY TRADING THEM. That is, unless I can get Andrew Friedman totally hammered and trade Flores for David Price straight-up.

As far as factoring my prospects into my plans for the MLB team, though, if you think I’m penciling in Flores or Holt, you’d have to be nuts. However, I can take my pencil and write in Coronado for 2B because he’s basically ready now. That’s the sole justification for my ranking. It’s not because I think Coronado will be a better player than Wilmer Flores. That, we can all agree, is ridiculous.

I hope that satisfies everyone.

By: NateW

NateW — Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:50:21 +0000

Toby, you have Flores, Marte, and Lagares all marked for Savannah. How do you see this working? With Flores and Marte both needing work defensively they could be a bad combo on one side of an IF.