For those curious.

2009 Niese, two starts
Regular Fastball:
Mean Speed 89.88MPH,
Mean horizontal movement (PFX):5.72,
Mean Vertical movement (PFZ): 9.53

Two Seam Fastball:
Mean Speed 89.7MPH
Mean Horizontal Movement: 10.5 !!!!,
Mean Vertical Movement: 6.24

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Compare this to 2008 Niese

Fastball;
Mean Speed: 89.139
Mean Horizontal Movement: 3.51 !!!!
Mean Vertical Movement 8.54

Thus in 2008, Niese’s fastball was really unusually straight. This year, not so much, especially not the Two Seamer.

the movement is still where he gets me. Niese hasn’t intrigued me much for a while because of it, and I was hoping that they’d sell high last year when he was hyped as a top pitching prospect. I subscribe to the idea that if you don’t have a #1 you have a chance to beat a guy with in any count, you’re average at best.

I don’t think Andy had a ton of fastball movement even in his prime, but he leaned really heavily on the cutter that made him famous.

but to be fair, I had always taken Niese as a guy that wouldn’t get by even with a plus curve and decent changeup unless his control was near perfect, since he’d still need to work off the fastball. Didn’t really see the cutter when I’d gotten the chance to go see him pitch, and he didn’t throw it in his callups. If his cutter and 2 seamer have developed into pitches he could throw to both sides of the plate in fastball counts, maybe he’s a different animal. I could see that getting him to be an effective back/mid rotation starter.

with a number of starters locked up and higher upside guys behind him, I’d still rather deal him for a need, but hey, hobbyist, not a scout

I’m not going to go through the game logs for Niese, but looking quickly at the very limited data on him, it appears as though pitchfx was calling his cutter a slider. Scouts did the same. It’s halfway between a hard slider and a classic cut fastball.

My point remains: his fastball isn’t a plus pitch, either in terms of velocity or movement, but a good enough pitch, even if it’s a tick below average.

Lefties really can succeed with less. Andy Petitte on all of those Yankees WS series teams didn’t really throw all that hard either.

It’s not how hard you throw it, it’s where you throw it.

great, he has a similar fastball to some lefties in baseball, every one of which has better off-speed than he does and better control.

considering the way this year is going, i’m sure we’ll get ample time to see him get humiliated in the majors like he’s done so far.